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	<title>Comments on: National Independence: Illusion and Counter-revolutionary</title>
	<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/</link>
	<description>Internasyonalismo is a blog dedicated to develop and enrich appreciation of Marxist methods by engaging in serious discussion and debates on burning issues that affect the working class and the broader society in general.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Pulang Tala</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-241</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:53:06 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-241</guid>
					<description>Tignan niyo. may ruso pang nagpapasikat ng kanyang pasismong &quot;sobyet&quot;. Nakakatawa. Ito na nga ang kaisang prente laban sa komunismo sa cyberspace. Mr. Admin. sana matauhan kayo sa blog ninyong walang kabuluhan at walang silbi sa pakikibaka ng proletaryado. Petiburgis ka gago. Ayoko na magpost naawa na ako, ako lang ata napansin sa basura ninyo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tignan niyo. may ruso pang nagpapasikat ng kanyang pasismong &#8220;sobyet&#8221;. Nakakatawa. Ito na nga ang kaisang prente laban sa komunismo sa cyberspace. Mr. Admin. sana matauhan kayo sa blog ninyong walang kabuluhan at walang silbi sa pakikibaka ng proletaryado. Petiburgis ka gago. Ayoko na magpost naawa na ako, ako lang ata napansin sa basura ninyo.
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		<title>by: melsm</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-187</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:22:44 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-187</guid>
					<description>There wasnt even a real proletarian party during the 1970s in the U$$R. &quot;Soviet&quot; union and the U$ where both imperialist.

Idiots from your sect uphold current China still as &quot;maoist&quot;. we are not getting theough anywhere with this pro-imperilaist bullshit as espoused by the pseudo-Marxists. not to mention how impossible a communist revlution is with the people of your type to lead the way, you are not even scientific to add. I suggest you review Das Kapital since you have aleady forgot it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There wasnt even a real proletarian party during the 1970s in the U$$R. &#8220;Soviet&#8221; union and the U$ where both imperialist.</p>
	<p>Idiots from your sect uphold current China still as &#8220;maoist&#8221;. we are not getting theough anywhere with this pro-imperilaist bullshit as espoused by the pseudo-Marxists. not to mention how impossible a communist revlution is with the people of your type to lead the way, you are not even scientific to add. I suggest you review Das Kapital since you have aleady forgot it.
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		<title>by: mir zaynen do!</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-183</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:45:38 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-183</guid>
					<description>Mao was the biggest ally of US imperialism. China is the world's sweat shop because of Maoism. China is the perfect example of &quot;real existing maoism&quot; having completed its two-stage revolution - two stages, both capitalist. Which imperialist power do you think comrade Prachanda's government will grovel to? China? India? Russia? Maybe the US? It all depends on which power offers his government the most in the way of increased wealth. Maoism has always acted as imperialism's whore, even to the point of stabbing the USSR in the back and entering into an alliance with the US. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mao was the biggest ally of US imperialism. China is the world&#8217;s sweat shop because of Maoism. China is the perfect example of &#8220;real existing maoism&#8221; having completed its two-stage revolution - two stages, both capitalist. Which imperialist power do you think comrade Prachanda&#8217;s government will grovel to? China? India? Russia? Maybe the US? It all depends on which power offers his government the most in the way of increased wealth. Maoism has always acted as imperialism&#8217;s whore, even to the point of stabbing the USSR in the back and entering into an alliance with the US.
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		<title>by: maoist</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-167</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:18:06 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-167</guid>
					<description>certainly not marxist. Bit quite pro-imperialist and counter-revoluitonary indeed. I guess it ends here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>certainly not marxist. Bit quite pro-imperialist and counter-revoluitonary indeed. I guess it ends here.
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		<title>by: maoist</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-166</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:17:08 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-166</guid>
					<description>You are better as bourgeois historians they say. Why not show up yourselves in the real form? Your organizations are anti-CPP/NPA, therefore you are anti-marxism leninism, you are counter-revolutionary, you are revisionists, you are supposedly dialectical materialists but you fix imperialism's dirty laundry. You are the enemies of the oppressed and exploited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You are better as bourgeois historians they say. Why not show up yourselves in the real form? Your organizations are anti-CPP/NPA, therefore you are anti-marxism leninism, you are counter-revolutionary, you are revisionists, you are supposedly dialectical materialists but you fix imperialism&#8217;s dirty laundry. You are the enemies of the oppressed and exploited.
</p>
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		<title>by: maoist</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-165</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:12:34 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-165</guid>
					<description>Thank you &quot;marxist&quot; bitches from the ICC,

I firmly stand in my later statement that this site is still full of shit. Plus, don't you know how &quot;left&quot; &quot;communism&quot; was a corpse ideology along with &quot;trotskyism&quot; and other things that certain number of individualist couch potatoes who see themselves as &quot;better&quot; &quot;revolutionaries&quot; can feed the proletariat with, unfortunately, the wretehced of the earth don't buy it. Your cause has little or almost nothing to call as mass support here in the Philippines.

And here it is, instead of uniting with the revolutionary movement, you attack us with your vague shit criticisms, and call us fighting for &quot;national capitalist revolution&quot;. Revolution isn't a ballet dance, waging revolution is a reality for us, and still bitches from ICC attack us with theri &quot;better&quot; &quot;analysis&quot;. All of you haven't even shed a drop of sweat nor blood for the proletarian rev.So fuck off.

People like you of the &quot;rejectionist&quot; type had nothing else to do but to create confusion and deviation in the Philippine condition, just like the &quot;marxist-leninists&quot; of the RPA(who call us &quot;stalinists&quot; or &quot;maoists&quot; just like all the rest of you here), the rj trotskyists, and other petite bullshit organizations that acts as agents of counter-revolution and imperialism.

Our differnces are polar, we have been considering you as enemies since Lenin was alive. So god damn the sectarian &quot;left&quot; &quot;communists&quot; who are nothing but petite bourgeois pigs to the core.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thank you &#8220;marxist&#8221; bitches from the ICC,</p>
	<p>I firmly stand in my later statement that this site is still full of shit. Plus, don&#8217;t you know how &#8220;left&#8221; &#8220;communism&#8221; was a corpse ideology along with &#8220;trotskyism&#8221; and other things that certain number of individualist couch potatoes who see themselves as &#8220;better&#8221; &#8220;revolutionaries&#8221; can feed the proletariat with, unfortunately, the wretehced of the earth don&#8217;t buy it. Your cause has little or almost nothing to call as mass support here in the Philippines.</p>
	<p>And here it is, instead of uniting with the revolutionary movement, you attack us with your vague shit criticisms, and call us fighting for &#8220;national capitalist revolution&#8221;. Revolution isn&#8217;t a ballet dance, waging revolution is a reality for us, and still bitches from ICC attack us with theri &#8220;better&#8221; &#8220;analysis&#8221;. All of you haven&#8217;t even shed a drop of sweat nor blood for the proletarian rev.So fuck off.</p>
	<p>People like you of the &#8220;rejectionist&#8221; type had nothing else to do but to create confusion and deviation in the Philippine condition, just like the &#8220;marxist-leninists&#8221; of the RPA(who call us &#8220;stalinists&#8221; or &#8220;maoists&#8221; just like all the rest of you here), the rj trotskyists, and other petite bullshit organizations that acts as agents of counter-revolution and imperialism.</p>
	<p>Our differnces are polar, we have been considering you as enemies since Lenin was alive. So god damn the sectarian &#8220;left&#8221; &#8220;communists&#8221; who are nothing but petite bourgeois pigs to the core.
</p>
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		<title>by: Juan</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-164</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:16:05 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-164</guid>
					<description>Yes the comrades of Internasyonalismo have a vast collective experience of Maoism and I dare to add that their collective experience in engaging in the so called peoples' war is something that should be respected. Many of  the comrades are from a maoist tradition and it is precisely that experience combined with a developed understanding of Marxism and a recognition of the material conditions of Philippine and world society under capitalism that led these comrades to abandon Maoism to establish Left Communism as a tendency of thought here. For that I have absolute respect. Comrade Maoist should also.

I also agree that the sectarian slanders against the Left Communist cadre is against the Marxist tradition of debate. In typical maoist style it is you are not with us u are against us. Arrogant nonsense typical of a sectarian group with no tradition in the proletarian struggle. 

The first test of communism in practice is of course Russia 1917, the Left Communists being part of the Bolsheviks and internatuionally on the side of that and their own revolutions, Germany, Italy etc. The significance of LC is in the critique of the failure of that revolution and its movement to the counter-revolution.

Let us look at where maoism was actually practiced and that is of course China. What can we say about China.

1. Not a socialist state but a national capitalist revolution. It overthrew feudalism but moved almost immediately to state capitalism. All industry and agriculture under the direct control of the state. The state being in control of the party. The relationship of the proletariat and peasantry was economically as provision of surplus value to the state.

2. In order to achieve power the CPC necessarily usurped control of the revolution from the proletariat and in the name of the people - in the service of the people. All independent working class organisations and action was and is ruthlessly repressed. In order to achieve power the working class as an indipendet force has to be destroyed - see also Vitenam, Laos, Kampuchea etc...

3. The natural conclusion of the development was as we see today - state capitalism in the service of the party and the apparatchiks with a small indipendent bourgeois. Mao would have approved of the ZTE deal no doubt.

4. Mao dropped all pretence to being a socialist after the 1927 revolution. From there on it was national liberation and capitalism. I suggest that comrade Maoist read Mao.

As to the arguments on Philippines. the nature of the comrade's argument is that we are semi feudal that capitalism is not strong enough to develop because of the influence of US imperialism that makes Philippines a chattel state. Even though th4e CPP recognises that the generalised mode of production is capitalism but because of the lack of mechanisation we must be still considered as a feudal nation!

Please add Korea, China, Japan and Philippines and Malaysia to the list of imperialisms. Remember Bangsamoro. You forget here the argument of all Marxists from Lenin (please excuse Trotsky from the list) on the question of the decadence of capitalism that all nations are either greater or lesser imperialists given the exhaustion of pre-capitalist markets. Neo-colonialism in that sense is a liberal analysis to divert attention form the internationalism of the working class in favor of national liberation struggles for their own national 'progressive' bourgeois. It is a nonsense argument. It espouses that there can and needs to be a  capitalist national revolution as opposed to socialism which is of course international. It is actually a liberal argument co-opted by stalinists to justify their nationalism.

In all this the comrade as with Mao rejects the Russian revolution and the lessons thereof. Remember comrade we were dealing with a nation where the proletariat was a tiny fraction of the populace and the nature of the country was as a chattel state of european capitalism and was itself an imperialist state. Please refer to Lenin on the rights of nations to self  determination for this. This did not stop the prolertariat from gaining power and moving - albeit under the distress of Totsky and Lenin in the leadership and their errors - to spread the revolution internationaly.

The comrade obviously denies the law of combined and uneven development in favor of capitalist formal logic in that what is necessary for Philippines in a bourgeois national revolution before at some stage when capitalism is developed (200 years i believe Joma once stated) we can move to socialism.

All our dear Comrade states is that he is in favor of a national capitalist revolution. All our comrade supports is a faction of the 'national' bourgeois in coming to power. As if it isn't already in control - or one section is.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes the comrades of Internasyonalismo have a vast collective experience of Maoism and I dare to add that their collective experience in engaging in the so called peoples&#8217; war is something that should be respected. Many of  the comrades are from a maoist tradition and it is precisely that experience combined with a developed understanding of Marxism and a recognition of the material conditions of Philippine and world society under capitalism that led these comrades to abandon Maoism to establish Left Communism as a tendency of thought here. For that I have absolute respect. Comrade Maoist should also.</p>
	<p>I also agree that the sectarian slanders against the Left Communist cadre is against the Marxist tradition of debate. In typical maoist style it is you are not with us u are against us. Arrogant nonsense typical of a sectarian group with no tradition in the proletarian struggle. </p>
	<p>The first test of communism in practice is of course Russia 1917, the Left Communists being part of the Bolsheviks and internatuionally on the side of that and their own revolutions, Germany, Italy etc. The significance of LC is in the critique of the failure of that revolution and its movement to the counter-revolution.</p>
	<p>Let us look at where maoism was actually practiced and that is of course China. What can we say about China.</p>
	<p>1. Not a socialist state but a national capitalist revolution. It overthrew feudalism but moved almost immediately to state capitalism. All industry and agriculture under the direct control of the state. The state being in control of the party. The relationship of the proletariat and peasantry was economically as provision of surplus value to the state.</p>
	<p>2. In order to achieve power the CPC necessarily usurped control of the revolution from the proletariat and in the name of the people - in the service of the people. All independent working class organisations and action was and is ruthlessly repressed. In order to achieve power the working class as an indipendet force has to be destroyed - see also Vitenam, Laos, Kampuchea etc&#8230;</p>
	<p>3. The natural conclusion of the development was as we see today - state capitalism in the service of the party and the apparatchiks with a small indipendent bourgeois. Mao would have approved of the ZTE deal no doubt.</p>
	<p>4. Mao dropped all pretence to being a socialist after the 1927 revolution. From there on it was national liberation and capitalism. I suggest that comrade Maoist read Mao.</p>
	<p>As to the arguments on Philippines. the nature of the comrade&#8217;s argument is that we are semi feudal that capitalism is not strong enough to develop because of the influence of US imperialism that makes Philippines a chattel state. Even though th4e CPP recognises that the generalised mode of production is capitalism but because of the lack of mechanisation we must be still considered as a feudal nation!</p>
	<p>Please add Korea, China, Japan and Philippines and Malaysia to the list of imperialisms. Remember Bangsamoro. You forget here the argument of all Marxists from Lenin (please excuse Trotsky from the list) on the question of the decadence of capitalism that all nations are either greater or lesser imperialists given the exhaustion of pre-capitalist markets. Neo-colonialism in that sense is a liberal analysis to divert attention form the internationalism of the working class in favor of national liberation struggles for their own national &#8216;progressive&#8217; bourgeois. It is a nonsense argument. It espouses that there can and needs to be a  capitalist national revolution as opposed to socialism which is of course international. It is actually a liberal argument co-opted by stalinists to justify their nationalism.</p>
	<p>In all this the comrade as with Mao rejects the Russian revolution and the lessons thereof. Remember comrade we were dealing with a nation where the proletariat was a tiny fraction of the populace and the nature of the country was as a chattel state of european capitalism and was itself an imperialist state. Please refer to Lenin on the rights of nations to self  determination for this. This did not stop the prolertariat from gaining power and moving - albeit under the distress of Totsky and Lenin in the leadership and their errors - to spread the revolution internationaly.</p>
	<p>The comrade obviously denies the law of combined and uneven development in favor of capitalist formal logic in that what is necessary for Philippines in a bourgeois national revolution before at some stage when capitalism is developed (200 years i believe Joma once stated) we can move to socialism.</p>
	<p>All our dear Comrade states is that he is in favor of a national capitalist revolution. All our comrade supports is a faction of the &#8216;national&#8217; bourgeois in coming to power. As if it isn&#8217;t already in control - or one section is.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jose</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-163</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:52:48 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-163</guid>
					<description>I think the people behind this blog has a better knowledge of maoism than you mr/ms &quot;maoist&quot;. I may suggest that you should rebut their position on issues that yoy differ with in a &quot;gentleman&quot; manner not of insults and attacks that have no bearing whatsoever to the points they raised. People like you are a shame to the marxists. You cannot even defend yourself against the criticisms. You only hide with your &quot;scientifiic&quot; babbling without any elaboration. If you really know marxism, you should also know the way Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc polemize with thier oppoents. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think the people behind this blog has a better knowledge of maoism than you mr/ms &#8220;maoist&#8221;. I may suggest that you should rebut their position on issues that yoy differ with in a &#8220;gentleman&#8221; manner not of insults and attacks that have no bearing whatsoever to the points they raised. People like you are a shame to the marxists. You cannot even defend yourself against the criticisms. You only hide with your &#8220;scientifiic&#8221; babbling without any elaboration. If you really know marxism, you should also know the way Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc polemize with thier oppoents.
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		<title>by: maoist</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-162</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:24:16 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-162</guid>
					<description>can we even post comments that go over 50 words. Your website is full of shit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>can we even post comments that go over 50 words. Your website is full of shit!
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		<title>by: maoist</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-158</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:20:48 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-158</guid>
					<description>The GRP govt is an U.$. imperialist client state. Hell, do you even know what is the meaning of neocolonialism? the people's movement led by the proletarian party must be focused on destroying the puppet state and imperialism, only with these means there can be socialist construction. When third world states(their proletarians) get loose from the chains of capitalism-imperialism they stop selling surplus labor to the imperialists and its lackeys.

Actually there is nothing to point out here. Your &quot;left&quot; wing &quot;communist&quot; &quot;Marxist&quot; thoughts still remained as thoughts, and has never been tested through the revolutionary scientific application. Do you think you can achieve communism by sitting your fat lard asses in front of computers? Why don't you organize and go in an all out armed insurrection?

Attacking the Maoists only make you look like imperialist puppets since they are the sole forces that hurt imperialism other than militant Islam. Instead of uniting with the revolutionary forces you go into your all round bullshit criticism while pondering into your untested abstract ideology. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The GRP govt is an U.$. imperialist client state. Hell, do you even know what is the meaning of neocolonialism? the people&#8217;s movement led by the proletarian party must be focused on destroying the puppet state and imperialism, only with these means there can be socialist construction. When third world states(their proletarians) get loose from the chains of capitalism-imperialism they stop selling surplus labor to the imperialists and its lackeys.</p>
	<p>Actually there is nothing to point out here. Your &#8220;left&#8221; wing &#8220;communist&#8221; &#8220;Marxist&#8221; thoughts still remained as thoughts, and has never been tested through the revolutionary scientific application. Do you think you can achieve communism by sitting your fat lard asses in front of computers? Why don&#8217;t you organize and go in an all out armed insurrection?</p>
	<p>Attacking the Maoists only make you look like imperialist puppets since they are the sole forces that hurt imperialism other than militant Islam. Instead of uniting with the revolutionary forces you go into your all round bullshit criticism while pondering into your untested abstract ideology.
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		<title>by: maoist</title>
		<link>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-157</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:20:20 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://internasyonalismo.blogsome.com/2008/06/11/national-independence-illusion-and-counter-revolutionary/#comment-157</guid>
					<description>You do not have a broad insight on the Maoist People's War. Instead you call them with unknown &quot;hear-say&quot; perspective, like associating them with chinese or indian imperialism. Can you get any more scientific, we can't understand idiots from the ICC, seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You do not have a broad insight on the Maoist People&#8217;s War. Instead you call them with unknown &#8220;hear-say&#8221; perspective, like associating them with chinese or indian imperialism. Can you get any more scientific, we can&#8217;t understand idiots from the ICC, seriously.
</p>
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